Comments for TurnKey Publishing by Matthew Chan: Independent Book Publishing, Audio Publishing, CEO Publishing, Accelerated Publishing, Self-Publishing http://turnkeypublisher.com Independent Book Publishing, Audio Publishing, CEO Publishing, Accelerated Publishing, and Self-Publishing Mon, 05 Dec 2011 20:48:15 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 Comment on Stop Paying Bowker Outrageous Fees for ISBNs by ryan http://turnkeypublisher.com/2011/04/30/stop-paying-bowker-outrageous-fees-for-isbns/comment-page-1/#comment-424 ryan Mon, 05 Dec 2011 20:48:15 +0000 http://turnkeypublisher.com/?p=368#comment-424 I self published a book and bought an isbn from a website and thought that I was the publisher. When I tried to list my title, I was told that the ISBN number was not mine and was not able to list it and in turn lost a big sale. I still have 2000 of those books left over. I am getting ready to print another book, but am still trying to figure out the right way to get an ISBN. Should I just goto Bowkers so I know I own it? I self published a book and bought an isbn from a website and thought that I was the publisher. When I tried to list my title, I was told that the ISBN number was not mine and was not able to list it and in turn lost a big sale. I still have 2000 of those books left over. I am getting ready to print another book, but am still trying to figure out the right way to get an ISBN. Should I just goto Bowkers so I know I own it?

]]> Comment on Stop Paying Bowker Outrageous Fees for ISBNs by Matthew Chan http://turnkeypublisher.com/2011/04/30/stop-paying-bowker-outrageous-fees-for-isbns/comment-page-1/#comment-423 Matthew Chan Tue, 29 Nov 2011 05:49:16 +0000 http://turnkeypublisher.com/?p=368#comment-423 Thanks for sharing the historical perspective. I found that piece interesting. I understand the purpose of the ISBN and why Bowker would want to use a different ISBN for each edition available. It is great for THEIR mission. Unfortunately, they have taken what was considered a noble instrument and twisted it into an easy money-making machine without providing additional value. Many newer, smaller, and independent publishers are entrepreneurs. What they seek is often incongruent with what libraries, Bowker, and other "old-school" interests are. Quite frankly, newer independent publishers don't care or want to pay for the privilege of making the interests of Bowker, libraries, and other institutional interests easier. All these publishers (like myself) care about is getting our works into the marketplace and, quite frankly, they don't really do that. As much as they may tout their Books-in-Print program, mainstream audiences browse Amazon nowadays with little regard to the ISBN. And the fact that a single Identifier such as a single ASIN can be used repeatedly for ongoing updates of a given title or project may be problematic for traditionalists but a boon to others. Admittedly, I am biased towards the private sector. While it might be nice to receive academic accolades within "proper" cataloging systems, it really is very low priority for me because I know where my "bread and butter" audience is. They are not browsing Bowker's "Books in Print". And I personally don't care if my published works are recognized by academia or not. We cannot be all things to all people. The advent of Amazon, ASIN, print-on-demand, and ebooks are some of the best things that could have ever happened to the publishing industry. They have uprooted conventional publishing wisdom rules and when many of us independent publishers look closely are the old rules, many are worth throwing out altogether. We all vote with our words, actions, and dollars. With a few exceptions, I have boycotted the ISBN system and refuse to support that system unless it specifically meets my needs. I cannot say I won't ever use an ISBN again especially in the case of hard-copy, print books but for ebooks, ISBNs are pointless now that we have the ability to update our ebooks at will at anytime. For that matter, there is a school of thought from a subset of independent publishers that refuses to update their ISBNs even when they release a new and updated edition of their work. I know that makes the traditionalists cringe. However, the rationale is that their ISBN represents a hard-earned ongoing project to be built up over time, not an item to be casually discarded and restarted simply because of Bowker's mandates. Additionally, it helps stymie the used book marketplace by ensuring that customers who want the latest version of any given title will buy it new since a particular ISBN is not necessarily being used to designate a particular "snapshot" of a work anymore. As you have pointed out, Bowker's existing system is already broken since there are publishers who (intentionally or unintentionally) muck up Bowker's rules of usage. As a point of reality, I tend to believe that traditionalists will continue to follow Bowker's rules since they like and appreciate the rules. But I can promise you, there is an increasing legion of independent publishers who will "do it their way". Unless Bowker wants to get into the ISBN-policing business, it is futile. Essentially, there will be two marketplaces. There will be those who conform to the traditional ISBN usage and then there is everyone else. The "everyone else" group will simply use a web browser to search out phrases and titles, not ISBNs. Thanks for sharing the historical perspective. I found that piece interesting. I understand the purpose of the ISBN and why Bowker would want to use a different ISBN for each edition available. It is great for THEIR mission. Unfortunately, they have taken what was considered a noble instrument and twisted it into an easy money-making machine without providing additional value. Many newer, smaller, and independent publishers are entrepreneurs. What they seek is often incongruent with what libraries, Bowker, and other “old-school” interests are. Quite frankly, newer independent publishers don’t care or want to pay for the privilege of making the interests of Bowker, libraries, and other institutional interests easier. All these publishers (like myself) care about is getting our works into the marketplace and, quite frankly, they don’t really do that. As much as they may tout their Books-in-Print program, mainstream audiences browse Amazon nowadays with little regard to the ISBN. And the fact that a single Identifier such as a single ASIN can be used repeatedly for ongoing updates of a given title or project may be problematic for traditionalists but a boon to others. Admittedly, I am biased towards the private sector. While it might be nice to receive academic accolades within “proper” cataloging systems, it really is very low priority for me because I know where my “bread and butter” audience is. They are not browsing Bowker’s “Books in Print”. And I personally don’t care if my published works are recognized by academia or not. We cannot be all things to all people.

The advent of Amazon, ASIN, print-on-demand, and ebooks are some of the best things that could have ever happened to the publishing industry. They have uprooted conventional publishing wisdom rules and when many of us independent publishers look closely are the old rules, many are worth throwing out altogether.

We all vote with our words, actions, and dollars. With a few exceptions, I have boycotted the ISBN system and refuse to support that system unless it specifically meets my needs. I cannot say I won’t ever use an ISBN again especially in the case of hard-copy, print books but for ebooks, ISBNs are pointless now that we have the ability to update our ebooks at will at anytime. For that matter, there is a school of thought from a subset of independent publishers that refuses to update their ISBNs even when they release a new and updated edition of their work. I know that makes the traditionalists cringe. However, the rationale is that their ISBN represents a hard-earned ongoing project to be built up over time, not an item to be casually discarded and restarted simply because of Bowker’s mandates. Additionally, it helps stymie the used book marketplace by ensuring that customers who want the latest version of any given title will buy it new since a particular ISBN is not necessarily being used to designate a particular “snapshot” of a work anymore.

As you have pointed out, Bowker’s existing system is already broken since there are publishers who (intentionally or unintentionally) muck up Bowker’s rules of usage. As a point of reality, I tend to believe that traditionalists will continue to follow Bowker’s rules since they like and appreciate the rules. But I can promise you, there is an increasing legion of independent publishers who will “do it their way”. Unless Bowker wants to get into the ISBN-policing business, it is futile. Essentially, there will be two marketplaces. There will be those who conform to the traditional ISBN usage and then there is everyone else. The “everyone else” group will simply use a web browser to search out phrases and titles, not ISBNs.

]]> Comment on Stop Paying Bowker Outrageous Fees for ISBNs by Paul T. Jackson http://turnkeypublisher.com/2011/04/30/stop-paying-bowker-outrageous-fees-for-isbns/comment-page-1/#comment-422 Paul T. Jackson Mon, 28 Nov 2011 19:06:02 +0000 http://turnkeypublisher.com/?p=368#comment-422 Back in the 70s I was given 100 ISBNs by Bowker...they were giving them away in order for people to use them...having just decided to use the process that the Europeans had adopted in the 60s. The publishing consortium gave RR Bowker the responsibility of keeping track. One of the main uses, and why publishers, libraries and academics want and need to use a unique number is that in citing a work, it is the only real way to know which edition of the work (a single title) one is citing...or being ordered by you or the library. I may not want the paperback, or I might want the ebook because of added material not in the hardbound. How would one order that without some unique number, or a direct contact with the publisher. The mis-use of the ISBNs is another problem. Some legitimate publishers are using the same ISBN for different versions/editions of the same title and when libraries are capturing this information into their databases for catalogs, often they get the wrong information. I've also run across the same ISBN for two completely different books; resulting in corrupted library databases. ASINs probably are useful, but they are yet to be recognized by cataloging systems naturally when online capturing book records. It also doesn't help with duplicate records/books. I agree the pricing of the ISBNs seems out of control, and it seems that Bowker could actually pay for these (administration and equipment) through it's sale of Book in Print usage on the back end, rather than front end by the publishers. This is especially critical if one has to use a different ISBN for each and every ebook format. A different model for costing out the administration; perhaps like that of domain name registration is in order...but then there wouldn't be a single 'book in print' database. Back in the 70s I was given 100 ISBNs by Bowker…they were giving them away in order for people to use them…having just decided to use the process that the Europeans had adopted in the 60s. The publishing consortium gave RR Bowker the responsibility of keeping track.
One of the main uses, and why publishers, libraries and academics want and need to use a unique number is that in citing a work, it is the only real way to know which edition of the work (a single title) one is citing…or being ordered by you or the library. I may not want the paperback, or I might want the ebook because of added material not in the hardbound. How would one order that without some unique number, or a direct contact with the publisher.
The mis-use of the ISBNs is another problem. Some legitimate publishers are using the same ISBN for different versions/editions of the same title and when libraries are capturing this information into their databases for catalogs, often they get the wrong information. I’ve also run across the same ISBN for two completely different books; resulting in corrupted library databases.
ASINs probably are useful, but they are yet to be recognized by cataloging systems naturally when online capturing book records. It also doesn’t help with duplicate records/books.
I agree the pricing of the ISBNs seems out of control, and it seems that Bowker could actually pay for these (administration and equipment) through it’s sale of Book in Print usage on the back end, rather than front end by the publishers. This is especially critical if one has to use a different ISBN for each and every ebook format. A different model for costing out the administration; perhaps like that of domain name registration is in order…but then there wouldn’t be a single ‘book in print’ database.

]]> Comment on Stop Paying Bowker Outrageous Fees for ISBNs by Beginning Readers http://turnkeypublisher.com/2011/04/30/stop-paying-bowker-outrageous-fees-for-isbns/comment-page-1/#comment-418 Beginning Readers Thu, 03 Nov 2011 23:29:20 +0000 http://turnkeypublisher.com/?p=368#comment-418 Their web sites were all down from Oct 29 to Nov 1 due to a heavy wet snow causing power outages all over New Jersey. Their web sites were all down from Oct 29 to Nov 1 due to a heavy wet snow causing power outages all over New Jersey.

]]> Comment on Stop Paying Bowker Outrageous Fees for ISBNs by Matthew Chan http://turnkeypublisher.com/2011/04/30/stop-paying-bowker-outrageous-fees-for-isbns/comment-page-1/#comment-416 Matthew Chan Tue, 01 Nov 2011 17:24:06 +0000 http://turnkeypublisher.com/?p=368#comment-416 According to Twitter feeds, Bowker has been affected by the snowstorms and are currently down. According to Twitter feeds, Bowker has been affected by the snowstorms and are currently down.

]]> Comment on Stop Paying Bowker Outrageous Fees for ISBNs by Bill Roberts http://turnkeypublisher.com/2011/04/30/stop-paying-bowker-outrageous-fees-for-isbns/comment-page-1/#comment-415 Bill Roberts Tue, 01 Nov 2011 12:49:29 +0000 http://turnkeypublisher.com/?p=368#comment-415 Bowker.com and myidentifiers.com has been down for a couple days. Their phones also appear to be down. Anyone know if they closed their doors? I just bought a block of 100 ISBNs and wonder what will happen to them. BIll Bowker.com and myidentifiers.com has been down for a couple days. Their phones also appear to be down. Anyone know if they closed their doors? I just bought a block of 100 ISBNs and wonder what will happen to them.
BIll

]]> Comment on Stop Paying Bowker Outrageous Fees for ISBNs by Paul Salvette http://turnkeypublisher.com/2011/04/30/stop-paying-bowker-outrageous-fees-for-isbns/comment-page-1/#comment-394 Paul Salvette Sun, 18 Sep 2011 03:04:04 +0000 http://turnkeypublisher.com/?p=368#comment-394 This is a great post on Bowker's 20th-century monopoly causing problems, and I came across it while researching for my book on eBook formatting. Thankfully, Amazon, B&N, and Smashwords don't require you to purchase an ISBN to list an eBook with them. A universally-unique identifier (a combination of randomly generated characters) is a suitable alternative and doesn't cost a dime. This is a great post on Bowker’s 20th-century monopoly causing problems, and I came across it while researching for my book on eBook formatting. Thankfully, Amazon, B&N, and Smashwords don’t require you to purchase an ISBN to list an eBook with them. A universally-unique identifier (a combination of randomly generated characters) is a suitable alternative and doesn’t cost a dime.

]]> Comment on Stop Paying Bowker Outrageous Fees for ISBNs by Vivian http://turnkeypublisher.com/2011/04/30/stop-paying-bowker-outrageous-fees-for-isbns/comment-page-1/#comment-373 Vivian Wed, 17 Aug 2011 17:58:18 +0000 http://turnkeypublisher.com/?p=368#comment-373 It's great to hear someone else speak out on this subject. I must admit, it was a surprise but a welcomed one. I hope that things do change in the future, as you said, it's not a tangible but digital product and should decrease in price not increase. It’s great to hear someone else speak out on this subject. I must admit, it was a surprise but a welcomed one. I hope that things do change in the future, as you said, it’s not a tangible but digital product and should decrease in price not increase.

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